Why?

Somebody posts on a forum that the new system he bought wasn't sounding as expected (using his old cables), and tried a £50 interconnect. This interconnect, for the user, transformed his system and he's now enjoying it - good times! No! Those who categorically state there's no differences in cables because they've never heard any, and read all the proof on the internet about blind testing, jump in and basically spoil his new found love for his system! Come on! The guy is happy, he wants to share, and gets his thread littered with how he can't have heard a difference and that people who pay any money for a cable are idiots.

Way to welcome a new member!!

I totally agree.

Having experienced the difference between cables, it really gets my back up when I see ignorant and uneducated people trying to claim that there is no difference and trying to force their views upon everyone else.

Some of these people genuinely may not hear or see a difference and this is understandable to a certain extent. Some people don't have the necessary equipment capable of presenting the difference that a cable can actually make. But no matter how you try and point this out to them, none of them can see or admit to a bottleneck in the system that simply will not allow a difference to be realised, so they argue the point that there is no difference just because they can’t see or hear one.

Others just simply refuse to see or hear a difference and pass the idea off as being absurd, either because they don’t want to spend more money or because they are just too narrow minded to even begin to understand the reasons for a cable making a difference in the first place. Or (again) that their system is just not capable of allowing the difference of a cable to be seen or heard.

Many of these people automatically back the so called scientific proof that is often flaunted on the forums by the usual suspects in an attempt to prove that cables do not make a difference. What they fail to realise is that scientific tests are set up in a highly controlled environment and any potential difference is negated by the limitations of the test itself. In a real life situation the differences can be heard, but many people are far too stubborn (or far too easily influenced) to be open to the possibilities. So they hide behind the science and the false comforts that it provides, completely unaware that it covers up the reasons why cables can and do make a difference.

You can always tell the ones that have no clue what they are trying to justify, because when you challenge them they go on about blind tests and double ABX tests, but they are only repeating what they have read elsewhere in an attempt to sound clever. I wager that most people who talk about such tests have never once been involved in one.

They will also mention the placebo effect, because they want to come over as knowing their stuff and trying desperately to sound impressive and knowledgeable. Unfortunately it works both ways and there is also a nocebo effect which they always leave out of the equation, as it would prove them wrong.

I suppose some refuse to believe because of certain laws of physics, and that if they did believe, they'd be called stupid for going against those laws.

The difference between Bluray and DVD can quite blatantly be seen. And yet, some people can't see that difference. Therefore, Bluray is obviously a big con then

But laws are meant to be broken, apparently. Just like science cannot prove everything.

On very few occasions have I been unimpressed with Blu-Ray. Obviously there are poor transfers on Blu-Ray which aren't as good as a top quality DVD's, but these are extreme cases and few and far between.

Under normal circumstances this goes back to my point about a system not being capable of showing differences. Or the person not seeing/hearing, or wanting to see/hear a difference. Some people refuse to accept Blu-Ray as being better because they don't want to pay the extra money to buy them, so they try to justify their stance by claiming there is no difference and join the other people who are unable to realise the benefits.

I can also see how diminishing returns comes into play at a certain level, but I think most people bickering about cables not making a difference are way below that kind of level.

Are we talking about the poor guy with the Marantz system, saw his post but did not read all the replies I did not have to as I knew where it was heading.

It is not just cables someone has tried to shoot down a suggestion I made about electronics with a non valid and incorrect statement, he tried to pot down a product without even knowing what it was (it was the CDQ so I sort of new what I was talking about), I think it is normal with larger forums, and the unfortunate thing is they probably think they are correct or may have been mis informed.

I will not discuss a product I do not know about or have not heard, if I repeat something I have read, then I will say I have read, I wont tell somone they must buy, just they should listen to or look at, however I am a little Dyslexic I have to be careful in what I write as to me it makes sense, but to others it may not, I am aware of this and will correct a statement if it is misleading or admit if I am wrong, some people will not or can not do this.

It is part of the reason I spend most of my time here, great company and non confrontational. We can discuss things without being shot down

That Marantz thread is funny. A few people really have it in for me! Particularly a certain who is a moderator on a retailer's forum who won't let me join....

LOL i read it with only a couple of posts in it should have known which way it was heading, David you should know better than to wade in on those someone is always going to try and twist it round, I was going to wade in myself but they locked the thread,

I need to scan it in and post it up here I was part of a of WHF Big Question day without knowing it we were doing a blind test of Mains Conditioners, Interconnects and Speaker cable, All we knew was they were making system changes not what bit of the system, It was bogo cables v Reasonable quality ones not really expensive ones but I was sold.

I won't be getting involved in them again. If someone asks me specifically about a cable, I'll answer them, but I'm not going to actively take part in them off my own back.

I did post on there that if anyone wanted to continue the discussion, they know where to find me - nothing

I have been there and sometimes the hardest thing to do is to do nothing, I have been half way through typing a post and just deleted it, just not worth getting het up about it is not just cables and audio forums it happens in every day life, happend to me at work recently I let someone get to me and said something when I should have just kept quiet what I then said was then twisted out of context and blown up out of all proportion, I did nothing wrong but the whole thing stressed me completely out, was so nice just to finish on friday and go to a stress free no sales pressure demo session,

We know you on Here David and know what a great shop FH is there are so few genuine passionate dealerships round, SE was one of them or I thought so at least they were always straight up with me, they did not have the sort of stock you guys had but I always found them helpful so it is a shame when they go out of business, and it is a shame when people on forums bash opinions and try to twist it in to something it is not.

I just hate it when people twist what you say and try and make you look the bad guy. No need for it. Obviously some eople have nothing better to do.

Yeah, like the dumbass I was wasting time on yesterday.

Hi - it was my post on the WHF forum that kicked all of this off ! Really amazing. All I was trying to do was share my good news that a £40 cable had transformed my view of my system completely.

Congratulations your first post and it got locked out by the moderators, that takes some doing

Post about anything you like on this forum you won't get that sort of response, you may get the occasional blunt response from the odd member but rest assured it is not personal, all pretty friendly on here, we are small but perfectly formum'ed

Cables all sound the same to me tbh, did not notice the difference between some Cheapo Cambridge Audio I/C's my old more expensive Ixos 304's.

Here's my theory......some people's ear are more susceptible to noise change than other's. In other words, I'm not sure everyone can sit and listen to music and hear/digest and appreciate very detail in that specific piece of music. They sit there and just listen to the music.

Then when you change a cable and create subtle improvements, they still just don't hear it. Thus becoming a 'non believer'.

My father is an electronic engineer, and has been all his life. He doesn't believe cables make a difference, and can't hear differences when I demonstrate a cable that offers big improvements. But that might be due to being 70, though!!!

Another thought is this: some cable improvements don't sit up and grab your attention straight away. I, for one, have had to switched over cables a few times before appreciating what the improvements are. Best way to test a new cable, in my opinion, is to plug it in and listen to some tunes through it for a few hours, then go back to the inferior one. Then the changes are more dramatic/obvious.

Just my opinions, of course......

Lovely.....where can i find it on WHF???? Accessories section???

You're wrong. There's no evidence to show there are differences so you believe there are non. Whatever difference you don't hear is in your head. You should be committed to an asylum like the one in Shutter Island fir not hearing any differences.
Prove to us there are no differences.

The original thread:
http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/sna ... -converted

Then a certain person's follow up thread ended up getting locked too:
http://www.whathifi.com/forum/accessori ... -accept--0

Someone seems to be convinced people still think the earth is flat, and loves to labour the point at every opportunity!